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Calli

Rat Poison

Doesn't work on mice - it just makes their dropping blue Evil or Very Mad
Quixote

I think the active ingredients in the baits differ. Don't know the actual details, but I'm sure I've heard/read somewhere that the two species metabolise the poisons differently? (where's ratman when you need him? Wink )

I think any bait that has Bromadiolone as its active ingredient will work on both though.............but you'd have to check with someone who knows Confused
Calli

Toaster saw one off......but not the preferred method of rodent control Laughing Rolling Eyes
Quixote

Calli wrote:
Toaster saw one off......


How on earth did you get it to stay in long enough!? Shocked

(and how long would you recommend to get them nicely crispy?)
Calli

Well you know those little Lakeland toastie bags made from Teflon...



And there is one still in here Evil or Very Mad
ratman

Quixote wrote:
I think the active ingredients in the baits differ. Don't know the actual details, but I'm sure I've heard/read somewhere that the two species metabolise the poisons differently? (where's ratman when you need him?  Wink )

I think any bait that has Bromadiolone as its active ingredient will work on both though.............but you'd have to check with someone who knows  Confused


Calli, any of the second generation anti coagulants will kill mice.
Bromadiolone, difenacoum, brodifacoum and flocoumafen. If the poison you are using contains a first generation then it most likely will not be overly effective against mice.
First generations are coumatetralyl, diphacinone, chlorophacinone and warfarin. The droppings turning blue is an indication that the bait has passed through the rodent, the blue being a dye.
If you are using bromadiolone on a whole wheat base you will find it can take much longer to kill mice as they tend to kibble the grains to get to the inner kernel. The active ingredient is mainly on the husk and so most of it is spilled when kibbled. A rodent has a different tooth structure to a human and does not have canine or pre molar teeth. It has a gap where these teeth should be medically known as a diastema. Most of the husk falls through the diastema and is not ingested. A mouse only eats around 3-5 grammes of food a day on average and so consumes minimal quantities anyway. I would recommend a wax block bait for mice as they tend to eat the entire content not just the kernel. Second generation of course
Quixote

ratman wrote:
A rodent has a different tooth structure to a human and does not have canine or pre molar teeth.


That's interesting, Ratty! A friend of mine at work is having a similar problem, in that the bait's being taken, but the population doesn't seem to be reducing by much! I'll tell him to try the wax block instead
ratman

Try that but also bear in mind that resistance can also occur. It might be worth changing the active ingredient.
snap cap

We have a rentokil one that contains Bromadiolone and that kills both mice and rats. Though some bloke over the pub with a beer degree which as you know is a certificate obtained when a certain ammount of beer has been consumed enabeling the drinker to talk at length and with authority on any given subject, well he reckons that rats have the ability to cure themselves of any poison by eating clay! or injecting themselves with vitamin K1.  Shocked
ratman

Eating clay has no use as a rat cannot vomit. Vit k is indeed the antidote and at times it has been found rats on farms have counter acted the effect of the poison by gnawing kale stalks. It is also worth considering if there is a source of vitamin k rich food nearby ?? Horse feed etc may contain such, I don;t know but it is worth looking.
snap cap

He also suggested what London Underground use which is a sticky board, aparently works a treat.
ratman

Sticky boards are not very nice and should only be used as a last resort in my opinion. They must be checked on a regular basis and the BPCA British Pest Control Association offer guidelines for their safe use.
Effectively it is a board coated in a very strong adhesive that when the rodent treads on it becomes stuck to it. Even though we are talking rats and mice I still feel they should be killed humanely and I struggle to find little humane about these boards.
fenlandfowl

Quixote wrote:
ratman wrote:
A rodent has a different tooth structure to a human and does not have canine or pre molar teeth.


That's interesting, Ratty! A friend of mine at work is having a similar problem, in that the bait's being taken, but the population doesn't seem to be reducing by much! I'll tell him to try the wax block instead

I have always used the wax blocks in bait boxes and found it to be most effective and safe for my cats.
I use tomcat 2.
fenlandfowl

ratman wrote:
Sticky boards are not very nice and should only be used as a last resort in my opinion. They must be checked on a regular basis and the BPCA British Pest Control Association offer guidelines for their safe use.
Effectively it is a board coated in a very strong adhesive that when the rodent treads on it becomes stuck to it. Even though we are talking rats and mice I still feel they should be killed humanely and I struggle to find little humane about these boards.

I find it refreshing to hear you say that. Too many people think that because they dislike a pest species, it is alright to cause sufferring. Those sticky boards are vile. Mouse or rat gets trapped, struggles, getting more and more stuck and dies a lonely, horrible terror filled death slowly from thirst or hunger. Hardly humane.It's as bad as hearing people say that rats in live traps should be drowned. Another slow lingering and terror filled death, also illegal BTW. I would lose all respect for someone I found advocating such cruelty.
ratman

fenlandfowl wrote:
Quixote wrote:
ratman wrote:
A rodent has a different tooth structure to a human and does not have canine or pre molar teeth.


That's interesting, Ratty! A friend of mine at work is having a similar problem, in that the bait's being taken, but the population doesn't seem to be reducing by much! I'll tell him to try the wax block instead

I have always used the wax blocks in bait boxes and found it to be most effective and safe for my cats.
I use tomcat 2.

Tomcat are very effective and relatively low toxicity towards some larger mammals. Cats would most likely not find them appetising should they come across a block in the open and a dead mouse or rat would not usually have enough poison in the body to kill a cat.
I use Tomkat quite a lot. I tend to use them more in external bait stations in the winter as the slugs and snails can be a real pain and damage the baits in no time. I do sometimes put them inside small plastic sealed bags to deter the slugs for a while and give the rodents chance to find them. It keeps the bait fresher longer and of course a rodent has no proble in chewing through the bag to get to the goodies.
Guest

ratty

i have read on another forum, about another way to kill rats, with bicarb....would you advocate this method?
ratman

Not legal as far as I am aware Mogs. I could see how it could work as rats are unable to vomit. There are lots of methods that would work, like mixing plaster of paris with cake and that sort of thing but definitely not legal. I can only do what is approved I am afraid. Does not mean it is always the best way but the law is the law where I am concerned as I am governed by associations that would condemn me if I did otherwise.
Poisoning is very effective if carried out properly. Safety of course is the issue but the most common mistakes I see people making is not using enough baiting points and bait, or over gunning it with bait. If you use an approved outdoor anti coagulant ie difenacoum or bromadiolone you should make sure you have sufficient bait points and check them every 4-5 days and replenish bait as required. I regularly see people filling them up every day. The poison can take a few days to get into the system and do the dreaded deed but until it does the rats will continue feeding from the bait point. The consequence being that the rat has already had enough to kill it but has eaten far more than it needed so the torso will be much more toxic should it be picked up by a non target species.If the bait is left for 4-5 days before topping up the rats that have eaten the first helping will most likely be on their way out if not already dead and should they take anymore to kill them it would be minimal. Much Safer !!!
Another big mistake is incorrect siting of the bait points. I went to a farm the other day where the farmer had been paying some local bloke to kill the rats. Virtually every bait point was out in the open and away from the buildings where the rats were most active.The guy doing the job was present at the time and told me the rats were too clever and would not eat the poison. I actually felt a bit sorry for the bloke and backed him up in front of the farmer and said I would have a look around with him and see where the rats were living. It was obvious from the moment I had pulled up but I did not want to drop the bloke in it as he seemed a decent sort of chap just a little green on the ways of a rat. To cut a long story short when the farmer had buggered off I had a long chat with the bloke and explained about the rats behaviour. We moved most of the stations to where the rats were most active and baited under some stone tiles. He phoned me yesterday to say that within a week all the bait had gone from all but one station and he was filling the boxes up again as we spoke. He was over the moon as was the farmer.
Nice to be off help !!!!
Guest

actually, it is a home made jobby, but it seems logical to me if not legal....lol....

our hay is on pallets in the barn, so we bait under the pallets, nice n dry there, and nothing but rats or mice can reach it, so definately safe.
the poison we have used for quite a while now, says on the tub to bait for 10 days running, uses a hell of a ot of bait i can tell you. i suppose they are coming in from the cold and wet maybe, but there are loads.....dont see them, only the poo and the dead ones. ( lots of runs in the grass tho )
ratman

Trouble is when they say bait for 10 days running they dont know how many rats you have !!
If you only have a small amount then baiting like that you will use much more poison than required and help their profit margin !!!
Try it as I have suggested and keep baiting till all bait takes completly stop.
Guest

will give it a go ratty......

did stop for a while ago, no bait was taken for about a week or so, then all of a sudden it was gone again, so we put more out and it is being taken again. nearly every time we get hay out of the bern ( every day at the minute ) there are more dead rats.
fenlandfowl

ratman wrote:

Tomcat are very effective and relatively low toxicity towards some larger mammals. Cats would most likely not find them appetising should they come across a block in the open and a dead mouse or rat would not usually have enough poison in the body to kill a cat.
I use Tomkat quite a lot. I tend to use them more in external bait stations in the winter as the slugs and snails can be a real pain and damage the baits in no time. I do sometimes put them inside small plastic sealed bags to deter the slugs for a while and give the rodents chance to find them. It keeps the bait fresher longer and of course a rodent has no proble in chewing through the bag to get to the goodies.


One of the reasons I like the blue wax block formulation is that it doesn't look like grain, ergo, not resembling food to birds. Secondly, once secured inside the bat boxm, there is no chance of it being dragged across the poultry yard. Then the fact that Tomcat2 has no secondary poisoning. Meaning that the rats have to feed on the stuff over several days to get a lethal dose. By the time it becomes lethal, they are feeling unwell and are hiding in their nest. A rat which eats one lot, then goes about during the day and is caught by a cat, will not contain enough of the poison to harm a cat or other animal. Cat by their very nature are not scavengers and don't eat carrion. If they see a very sick, slow looking rat outside, they would not target it.
The other poisons, like 'Jaguar' blocks are fast acting, need only one feed, and would mean that the rats hold enough poison in their body after one feed to be dangerous to my cats.
I know what you mean about slugs finding the bait stations to be a good place to hibernate but I find checking the bait boxes weekly and removing any I find, to be effective. Weekly checking of the bait boxes is, in any case, the only way I can gauge how much of a rat problem I have. Blocks eaten fast and needing refilled every week=lots of rats. Blocks getting nibbled but not eaten all up in a week =I have rats but not plague proportions. No bait being eaten = no rats around at present.
I like rats, have had plenty as pets over the years. I have also had many bantams killed by wild ones. Everyone with land, even a small garden, with sheds, hiding places and poultry, *will* have rats. Whether you face up to it and start dealing with it or not is another matter.
The fens are prime rat territory, plenty of cover in the dykes, lots of water and hardly any predators, it not being fox friendly land. I buy the tomcat2 in 8kg tubs and make sure I know all the nest sites and runs, do a check every couple of weeks to take note of any new burrows and bait accordingly.
Heck, I reckon I should have been a ratman or woman cos I knows me rats.
See 'Frederico' now deceased Crying or Very sad playing hide and seek through a toilet roll holder.
fenlandfowl

mogs wrote:
will give it a go ratty......

did stop for a while ago, no bait was taken for about a week or so, then all of a sudden it was gone again, so we put more out and it is being taken again. nearly every time we get hay out of the bern ( every day at the minute ) there are more dead rats.


Don't forget you may well clear one lot of rats (no bait taken), but you create a nice safe empty territory for new rats to move into (bait suddenly being taken again). Baiting is an ongoing thing. Which bait are you using out of interest?
If you try the link I posted you will find the baits to be very reasonably priced. The tomcat2 is about 30 for a 4kg tub which should last you ages. Personally I would invest in some bait boxes and place them elsewhere around your land. Although chucking the bait under the pallets deals with the ones who's territory that is, it won't deal with the rats who's territory is 25 feet away as they are fiercely territorial and would not stray onto occupied territory as it would mean instant death from the male rats on that patch.
Do a mooch about, look along the sides of buildings for dirty greasy marks where they run hugging the walls, look for holes etc, compost heaps, under sheds, log piles, etc are all perfect habitat for rattus rattus.
Although I'm not a professional like Ratman, I think he would agree that I know my stuff, having had to deal with rats for the last 30 years as a poultry keeper and having had the pleasure of keeping pet rats  Laughing
ratman

fenlandfowl wrote:
mogs wrote:
will give it a go ratty......

did stop for a while ago, no bait was taken for about a week or so, then all of a sudden it was gone again, so we put more out and it is being taken again. nearly every time we get hay out of the bern ( every day at the minute ) there are more dead rats.


Don't forget you may well clear one lot of rats (no bait taken), but you create a nice safe empty territory for new rats to move into (bait suddenly being taken again). Baiting is an ongoing thing. Which bait are you using out of interest?
If you try the link I posted you will find the baits to be very reasonably priced. The tomcat2 is about 30 for a 4kg tub which should last you ages. Personally I would invest in some bait boxes and place them elsewhere around your land. Although chucking the bait under the pallets deals with the ones who's territory that is, it won't deal with the rats who's territory is 25 feet away as they are fiercely territorial and would not stray onto occupied territory as it would mean instant death from the male rats on that patch.
Do a mooch about, look along the sides of buildings for dirty greasy marks where they run hugging the walls, look for holes etc, compost heaps, under sheds, log piles, etc are all perfect habitat for rattus rattus.
Although I'm not a professional like Ratman, I think he would agree that I know my stuff, having had to deal with rats for the last 30 years as a poultry keeper and having had the pleasure of keeping pet rats Laughing


Not bad at all Fenlandfowl, the only fault is the species identification, Rattus rattus is the black rat. Rattus norvegicus is the brown rat which are the rats you will be dealing with. Never the less if you ever move to Surrey and your looking for a job !!!!!!!!
donthre

ratman wrote:
........................... Rattus norvegicus is the brown rat which are the rats you will be dealing with. Never the less if you ever move to Surrey and your looking for a job !!!!!!!!


Idea  Why don't you sell her the "Fenland Franchise" Ratty ?  Wink
ratman

Not a bad idea Hmmmmmm Wink
fenlandfowl

ratman wrote:
fenlandfowl wrote:
mogs wrote:
will give it a go ratty......

did stop for a while ago, no bait was taken for about a week or so, then all of a sudden it was gone again, so we put more out and it is being taken again. nearly every time we get hay out of the bern ( every day at the minute ) there are more dead rats.


Don't forget you may well clear one lot of rats (no bait taken), but you create a nice safe empty territory for new rats to move into (bait suddenly being taken again). Baiting is an ongoing thing. Which bait are you using out of interest?
If you try the link I posted you will find the baits to be very reasonably priced. The tomcat2 is about 30 for a 4kg tub which should last you ages. Personally I would invest in some bait boxes and place them elsewhere around your land. Although chucking the bait under the pallets deals with the ones who's territory that is, it won't deal with the rats who's territory is 25 feet away as they are fiercely territorial and would not stray onto occupied territory as it would mean instant death from the male rats on that patch.
Do a mooch about, look along the sides of buildings for dirty greasy marks where they run hugging the walls, look for holes etc, compost heaps, under sheds, log piles, etc are all perfect habitat for rattus rattus.
Although I'm not a professional like Ratman, I think he would agree that I know my stuff, having had to deal with rats for the last 30 years as a poultry keeper and having had the pleasure of keeping pet rats  Laughing


Not bad at all Fenlandfowl, the only fault is the species identification, Rattus rattus is the black rat. Rattus norvegicus is the brown rat which are the rats you will be dealing with. Never the less if you ever move to Surrey and your looking for a job !!!!!!!!


I stand corrected. If I ever move to Surrey I'll need a job to pay the mortgage on a similar home to what I have here in the fens cos it's flipping dear down there compared to here

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